Why we always think prototypes are bigger than they are: An OppoThesis

"Clemsie McKenzie" (thestirringcolumn) 03/08/2016 at 12:05 • Filed to: OppoThesis

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Pretty much every time a picture of a sports-proto race car next to a normal car gets posted, everyone goes “woooh, I never knew it was so tiny”! And I think I’ve figured out why. Well, it’s just a theory, but I think it makes a lot of sense.

I think the main thing is the size of the windshield. Because when looking at a picture of a non-street derived race-car, you have no obvious reference point to quickly decide what size it really is, so your brain grabs the biggest thing that looks normal: the windshield. And it assumes that all windshields must be somewhat as big, because you still have to fit a driver behind, right?

Well, actually, no. Street cars, and thus streat-derived cars have a much, much bigger cockpit, because a driver and 1 to 4 other persons must be able to fit in it somewhat comfortably, and have a good vision out. The passengers’ legs are more or less contained in the cockpit, for example. For comparison, here’s how the cockpit of an LMP1 car looks like:

Pretty cramped, right? Look, the driver has to be laying almost flat to fit in height, and his head is much farther back than your brain would have you think when looking at the exterior of the car. And even if by tradition LMP1 have to be able to house two human beings, realistically you’re not going to put anyone besides the driver. He fills almost all the room there is, and he takes up almost half of the total length of the car!

It also works with classic race cars. Look at the space taken up by the helmets of the drivers of these Porsches:

Impressive right? And a classic 911 is no truck.

So yeah, I think this is the main reason why we’re always surprised to see how tiny prototypes are compared to other cars. Add to that the fact that we generally think that everything we see in a picture is bigger than it really is, and if you happen to see an LMP1 in real life up close, you’re up for quite the shocker.

ArmadaExpress drives a turbo outback > Clemsie McKenzie 03/08/2016 at 12:08

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I agree with your explanation. I always forget how small they are when I’m watching a race.

TheHondaBro > Clemsie McKenzie 03/08/2016 at 12:09

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I’m still having a lot of difficulty grasping this.

Clemsie McKenzie > ArmadaExpress drives a turbo outback 03/08/2016 at 12:10

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Yeah it’s even harder when watching the races on TV! You don’t even get to see people next to it, plus have weird lenses... It certainely ads to the problem.

Clemsie McKenzie > TheHondaBro 03/08/2016 at 12:12

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Well, simply put, your brains assumes that street cockpit = LMP1 cockpit, and deduces the size of the rest of the car from there. But race cars’ cockpits are really really tiny.

EL_ULY > Clemsie McKenzie 03/08/2016 at 12:13

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I found a pic of the 2016 line up, yay :]

In 1:18 diecast they are fairly large. Also, the video of the CLK-GTR flipping around made me first assume they are large. Daytona prototype are pretty big though

scoob > TheHondaBro 03/08/2016 at 12:14

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Try using Photoshop to resize a normal car layered on top of a prototype, so that the normal car’s windshield is the same size as that of the prototype, and then you’ll see. The normal car will look so much smaller.

scoob > Clemsie McKenzie 03/08/2016 at 12:14

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Wow, never thought of it like this. ARE YOU A WIZARD?!?!??!!!!!!!!*

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Clemsie McKenzie 03/08/2016 at 12:15

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They also look big because the drivers are usually so small.

Thomas Donohue > Clemsie McKenzie 03/08/2016 at 12:15

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Race cars are small. And it’s all about perspective...

Captain of the Enterprise > Clemsie McKenzie 03/08/2016 at 12:15

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This makes a lot of sense to me and the size comparisons blow my mind

TheHondaBro > Clemsie McKenzie 03/08/2016 at 12:16

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It could also be because the wheels are disproportionately larger than the amount of body around them.

Clemsie McKenzie > EL_ULY 03/08/2016 at 12:17

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Yeah DP are a bit bigger. But really they still are smaller than your average road car:

Look at it compared to the Z4 GT3, which isn’t a big car at all. The wide and weird windshield of the DPs only adds to the problem I think.

Clemsie McKenzie > TheHondaBro 03/08/2016 at 12:17

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Yep that sure doesn’t help!

Clemsie McKenzie > Thomas Donohue 03/08/2016 at 12:19

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Wow that pic is amzing! 917s are so small...

Clemsie McKenzie > scoob 03/08/2016 at 12:21

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Hahaha no I guess I just spend wayyy to much time thinking about race cars!

Clemsie McKenzie > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 03/08/2016 at 12:24

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Yeah that’s true. So even when we see them standing next to the cars it doesn’t really help. Though I think Mark Webber is about 6' tall.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Clemsie McKenzie 03/08/2016 at 12:27

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Yep, Webber’s unusually tall for a racing driver, and you could always tell when he was dwarfing over Seb even though he was on the lower step of the podium.

StingrayJake > Clemsie McKenzie 03/08/2016 at 12:27

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Funny thing is I see them pass GT cars on the track and their size doesn’t really register. It’s not until they’re stationary and side-by-side that it’s so obvious.

Thomas Donohue > Clemsie McKenzie 03/08/2016 at 12:27

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Like go-karts...

BigBlock440 > Clemsie McKenzie 03/08/2016 at 12:28

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1) Wow, didn’t realize they were so small

and

2) Yes, it’s absolutely because we see the cockpit and relate it to the passenger compartment.

Clemsie McKenzie > TheHondaBro 03/08/2016 at 12:33

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I did a basic PS thing based on Scoob’s idea:

So basically this is how your brain perceives the car. Equal windshield size, but then the proto is much bigger. When in reality it looks like this:

Clemsie McKenzie > StingrayJake 03/08/2016 at 12:35

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I think that might have to do with the cameras they use, although of course the speed doesn’t help!

Clemsie McKenzie > Thomas Donohue 03/08/2016 at 12:37

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One of my favorite race cars ever. So much power in such a litte thing is mind-blowing.

Leon711 > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 03/08/2016 at 12:40

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It’s weird that all the best drivers are 5/8ths sized humans.

luvMeSome142 & some Lincoln! > Clemsie McKenzie 03/08/2016 at 13:18

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I think you’re right.

It’s very hard to picture the driver with his toes at the base of the windshield when looking at the top pic.

luvMeSome142 & some Lincoln! > Clemsie McKenzie 03/08/2016 at 13:19

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Does anybody know why the seating position is to the side? Why isn’t it in the middle, like F1 cars?

Clemsie McKenzie > luvMeSome142 & some Lincoln! 03/08/2016 at 13:38

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In the (very) early days of endurance racing, the cars were raced by a driver and his mechanic to fix the car, or two co-driver sharing the drive as the race went on.

Modern day endurance racing retains this tradition of having (in theory) seating for two in the cars, hence the offset driving position. It was a rule then and stayed in the rulebook.

just-a-scratch > Leon711 03/08/2016 at 13:58

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It's not weird if you think of them like jockeys. Small driver = less mass = more acceleration

luvMeSome142 & some Lincoln! > Clemsie McKenzie 03/08/2016 at 14:32

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Thanks!

Bakkster, touring car driver > luvMeSome142 & some Lincoln! 03/08/2016 at 22:38

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Because the definition of a sports car is one with two seats, one each on opposite sides of the car’s centerline, unlike a single-seater like F1. Now, prototypes don’t actually fit a working seat there, but it’s the differentiating factor.

wafflesnfalafel > Clemsie McKenzie 03/08/2016 at 22:50

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or maybe 911s are huge!

BaconSandwich is tasty. > Clemsie McKenzie 03/08/2016 at 23:53

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I know it would be a terrible idea, but I’d still like to daily drive an LMP car as a daily driver. Maybe make my own locost-based one. A guy can dream, right?

Clemsie McKenzie > BaconSandwich is tasty. 03/09/2016 at 03:38

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I bet someone went and did a replica of one based on a Fiero.

Clemsie McKenzie > BaconSandwich is tasty. 03/09/2016 at 03:41

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Or you can get a Radical!

BaconSandwich is tasty. > Clemsie McKenzie 03/09/2016 at 08:05

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No doubt. But whether it actually looked good...

BaconSandwich is tasty. > Clemsie McKenzie 03/09/2016 at 08:08

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A

Not sure if a person could ever get a Radical road legal though. Having ridden in one, I can say it was a blast.

Are there any LMP cars that can actually fit two people inside with a closed canopy?

Clemsie McKenzie > BaconSandwich is tasty. 03/09/2016 at 08:20

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Yes, and yes.

Behold, the Radical RXD, road-legal and available in Turbo guise, powered by the Ecoboost V6 putting out 450bhp.

BRyan31122 > Clemsie McKenzie 03/09/2016 at 09:44

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Absolutely perfect comparison.. If say this is definitive proof that this theory is correct. It’s almost giving me a headache.

NYankee1927 > Clemsie McKenzie 03/09/2016 at 09:55

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It’s even more impressive when you manage to fit two people in the car. I got to ride in a little Elva sports racer and there was a lot of man leg and hip and shoulder touching

Clemsie McKenzie > NYankee1927 03/09/2016 at 09:56

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What a bonding moment that must've been!

BmacIL > Clemsie McKenzie 03/09/2016 at 10:18

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I felt the same way the first time I went to an F1 race and was able to do the grid walk the day before practice. Also, the wheel & tire is super, super light...like 35 lbs tops (one team had some on display for fans to pick up/look at).

Mike Ramsey > Clemsie McKenzie 03/09/2016 at 10:23

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Take a trip to the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago sometime. They have 3 or 4 Indycars from the 80's in there. It's amazing how small those things are.

Clemsie McKenzie > Mike Ramsey 03/09/2016 at 10:37

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I’m afraid being in France won’t help with that! But yeah, race cars are tiny!

NYankee1927 > Clemsie McKenzie 03/09/2016 at 10:42

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Sure was! Not as much as these guys though. We should consider oursevelves lucky there were seatbelts so I didn’t have to put my arm around the driver.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > Clemsie McKenzie 03/09/2016 at 12:59

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Hot dang!

A few years ago I had a chance to go shoot photos for a guy who raced a Radical SR8, and got to go for a ride in it. We easily hit 140 mph (fastest I’ve ever been in a car) and could have gone faster, but there wasn’t a long enough straight. At one point there was a rise in the track that we did actually manage to get air off of. One heck of a ride.

For me, one concern about having such a car as a daily driver would be having an enclosed cockpit. As much as I love the wind through my hair, I also don’t like getting hit in the face with insects or rain.

Great.... now I’m going to be lusting after owning/making my own Radical RXD.

Grant Leavitt > Clemsie McKenzie 03/11/2016 at 18:14

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I’ve been to American Le Mans races and can concur, the cars are essentially about the same length, width and height of the GT-class cars. But, even amongst the field of Prototypes and GT cars, the Prototypes still look larger-than-life.

Grant Leavitt > BaconSandwich is tasty. 03/11/2016 at 18:15

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There are some street-legel Porsche 962s...

Grant Leavitt > Clemsie McKenzie 03/11/2016 at 18:20

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Even without cameras, having been to a few American Le Mans series races in person, the size difference is still not registering on track. In the Paddock the teams have the cars separated by tents so this again doesn’t help you see the sizes. It’s crazy!

Jack86 > Clemsie McKenzie 03/12/2016 at 16:42

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Totally agree, the first time i saw a LMP1 car i was shocked how small it was.